The uphill debate on illegal immigration

Posted by ( BHappy ) on June 25, 2008 at 6:49 pm

Ms. Sorto:
If I were to put up a sign of such large magnitude in a historic district, I would be asked to take it down, and as a law-abiding citizen, I would do so.

I came to Manassas as an immigrant, and was very impressed with the courtliness and polite Southern manners of the locals.  It was a refreshing level of civility and common respect, and one of the things that makes Manassas wonderful.

The issue with the sign at 9500 Liberty is not that the owner is Hispanic, it is that he is rude and disrespectful.  His sign is an eyesore and blight in a historic area that the town has worked very hard to develop into a tourist magnet, drawing upon the civil war history of the area.  The “sign” diminishes the attractiveness of Old Town, and also clearly establishes that the owner chooses to not try and resolve his disagreements with courtliness and civility.

It is a shame that the owner of 9500 Liberty chooses to act in this fashion, but quit trying to play the race card with every letter you write.  It is tedious and tiresome.

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Posted by ( raywilliams ) on June 23, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Part II MikeG:  I don’t claim to have all the answers, I just claim to understand to process for effecting change. I’ve tossed my “plan” in the ring many times and stand by my comments for others to agree or tear it apart at their will. All I ask is please, in the effort of tearing it apart, provide something else to take its place. Identify the problem and a source of funding to attack the problem. Wishing, dreaming and hoping are not legitimate answers!

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Posted by ( MikeG ) on June 23, 2008 at 6:32 am

Ray, you seem to have all the answers, so why don’t we all just write in your name on the ballot and elect you to fix everything for us?  According to most Democrats, our President and indeed our Presidential nominee are not the most intelligent people around.  The fact that you’ve said you only have a high school education should be no impediment these days, and I’d vote for you if I knew you had all the answers.
    Sometimes trying to convince someone of something is like trying to nail jello to the wall; you’re never gonna do it, no matter how hard you try.  In actual fact, there are many things you and I tend to agree upon, although you tend to minimize everything and everyone who takes an alternate stand.  That’s pretty typical of liberal politics….demonize the conservatives whose only real interest, according to liberals, is in preserving their big profits at the expense of everyone and everything else.  I only wish I had some profits; I just have to depend on my over-inflated salary, after taxes, after insurance, after transportation costs, after medical expenses, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera..  . 
    But all flippancy aside, what about the issue of cash?  You’re in the construction industry, you say, and an entrepreneur.  Well, I suspect therefore that you’ve come face to face with the competition out there, and it’s not just unscrupulous employers and you bloody well know it.  It’s also unscrupulous customers who are more than willing to pay in cash to save some money.  What bank is going to question a withdrawal under $10,000 in cash; what IRS audit is going to catch an expenditure of such cash for illegal purposes, when that purpose is not documented?  In the absence of receipts, how is anyone going to prove anything?  When someone drives by to pick up two, three or four day laborers, do you honestly believe they are going to pay these undocumented workers by check?  When the unscrupulous contractor resurfaces a homeowner’s driveway and the homeowner agrees to pay him in cash, what do you honestly think the contractor pays his crew by check? 
  This isn’t rocket science, Ray.  It’s hard reality in a time when the black market and underground economy in this country are thriving.  Many of my fellow citizens are, I have to admit, contributing to this problem by being willing participants.  I know it’s happening, and so do you.  It’s a vicious cycle that needs to be, but in our current environment may never be, broken without some drastic measures being taken by our government.
  I agree wholeheartedly that the solution should begin at the borders.  Lock them down; make the U.S. fortress America if you have to, but we need absolute control of our borders, not to prevent people from entering and leaving, but to ensure that those entering are arriving here legally and invited. 
    But what should localities do in the meantime?  Sit on their hands?  Because our federal government has failed to protect our borders and to modernize our immigration laws, anyone with a little ingenuity and determination can get into this country any time they wish.  We’ve seen the results of this when people who have been deported show up in police custody again and again.  The levies are broken, and the flood is unchecked.  Localities have been forced to take whatever actions necessary to stem this tide, at least in their areas, and they are doing this with the full support of the MAJORITY of citizens.
    I think I’ve even agreed to part of your plan, which is to issue TEMPORARY documents to illegal immigrants, which certainly should include the gathering of fingerprints, photographs, even DNA, and which should be tied to a deadline for either achieving legal status or departing for their home country.  But this has to be tied to the security of our borders, first, or all it will be is a clear invitation to millions more illegal aliens to flood into this country in the knowledge that they can acquire temporary documentation.  It won’t work, nor will it satisfy the citizens of this nation, unless the levies are mended.  Simple as that.

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Posted by ( raywilliams ) on June 20, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Well barnun, you and I trade thoughts back and forth, each willing to make some compromise in our positions. And most others? Just ongoing rants about what was, what is and what might be - with never an idea towards how to solve the issues. If people believe the PWC Resolution is working, we can stop these debates and enjoy our summer. If the Resolution is not working, then what is next in line to try? This ongoing Ford vs Chevy junior high debate is getting very boring. I’m sure MikeG is doing his homework and will soon be able to tell me where cash comes from ....

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Posted by ( raywilliams ) on June 19, 2008 at 5:10 pm

barnun, I work in the construction industry for crying out loud. And you guys want to debate me on the paying of illegals issue? I’ve seen every (well, I’m sure there are some I haven’t seen) trick in the book. Real Cash is hard or impossible to come by unless the customer is in on the scam. If a customer is willing to scam the government to save a few bucks, where do the scruples lie? They’re not using professional companies to begin with.
That may work for construction. How does a corporate fast food manager get cash to pay a line worker? Can’t. So the employee goes on the books and pays taxes - often taxes they can’t file a refund for. Are we still screaming about not paying taxes or now screaming this is against the law? ‘Cause all I ever read is the stereotype “illegals don’t pay taxes”.  Make up your minds what your concerns are AND ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM. Ahem, back to my Documented Illegal Immigrant Plan ....

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